|
What's the knock and 'diagnosis'
So what's the point of
the survey?
The Survey (survey closed 31 Jan 2005)
Where's my engine and chassis (VIN) numbers?
Update - further evidence 26/06/2004
Update 20/07/2004 -
another 'take' on the Knock from a UK Dealer
Update 28/08/2004 - both
myself and Preload have written to Suzuki asking for an official
response from them....watch this space.
Bad news too....I have now heard of an SV that has previously had
the main bearings update that has developed the knock again.
The owner has decided not to do anything more about it and just get
on with enjoying the bike as there is no evidence to date that the
longevity of the engine is affected.
Update 09/09/2004 - I've written to Suzuki again on receipt
of their very unsatisfactory response to my letter mentioned above.
Click here to see the letters
Update 28/10/2004 -
No joy with writing to Suzuki GB -
Letter to Mr Suzuki, Suzuki HQ, Japan
A new thread on the forum compiling as much info as possible:
The 'knock' - All you need to know!
New thread 09/2004 on the SV
Owners Forum:
"The 'knock' - All you need to
know!"
There have been many discussions on the sv1000.zyns
forum which recently culminated in 'Crank' (an assumed 'nic' to protect
the anonymity of an existing forum member or more to the point his/her
contact at Suzuki) starting a survey in an attempt to establish if there
is a pattern to the bikes being affected.....before anyone asks, no
I am not 'Crank'.
Unfortunately, in the short time that email survey
ran, there were insufficient respondents for any pattern to be seen....another
factor affecting the results were the number of 'I might have the knock'
type replies making some of the data suspect. So with 'Crank's'
blessing I have decided to take up where he/she left off and will hopefully
achieve something having learnt from the causes of his/her efforts being
unsuccessful.
I will not enter in to all the 'pros' and 'cons'
of pursuing this matter here...that's all been done on the forum but
whatever your opinion please do participate particularly if your SV
has already had 'modified' main bearings installed to cure the
'knock'. Please complete the survey whether your bike has
the knock or not - responses from owners of bikes without the knock
are also important as this information will help clear anomalies in
the results.
This survey is open to all
SV1000 owners, not just sv1000.zyns forum members.
What 'knock'?:
.........it occurs rhythmically in time with the spinning of the crankshaft.
It is palpable in the left clipon and occurs whether the clutch is in
or out, under 2500 rpm but disappears under load.
How do I know if my bike
definitely has the 'knock'? - (by Bish 26May2004): I went to a quiet
place last night and listened to the bike running.
Clutch rattle.
IMO: this really is just operating noise. Mine has pretty much made
this noise from the day I picked it up. Yes it was noticeably louder
after the 1st service (who knows why) but it has not got any worse.
Pull the clutch in and the rattle goes away.
Valve noise.
When the clutch is pulled in you can hear the light tappy noise of the
valve gear. This is normal. The Bandits valve gear sounded like a bag
of spanners...
Knocking noise
Not sure if you've got it? How do you tell? - Whatever is
causing it it resonates down the left hand pipe (as you're sat on the
bike). Walk slowly around the bike, you cant really hear it around the
right rear but left middle to rear its clear enough.
If you can't hear it get
a friend to hold clutch lever in (or strap it in).
You will need an assistant at this point (someone who has also identified
the noises as detailed above):
Now, if you put the bike in gear let the clutch out to the bite point
and let it take up the slack in the transmission etc. You start to move
forward slowly, trail the rear brake. The knocking goes away. Sat on
the bike you can't really tell but your assistant should notice the
difference from behind the bike.
So what's the point of
the survey? - clearly there is an issue affecting a small percentage
of bikes but Suzuki have not acknowledged this however I have become
aware of the following, albeit from an uncorroborated source it has
come to me via a trustworthy contact:
The theory is that there
was a rogue batch of engines produced where Suzuki has become aware
that due to incorrect machining tolerances the crank to bearing gap
is very slightly oversize. In order to cure it Suzuki would have to
have special bearings made. Allegedly Suzuki dealers have been told
to use oil of a higher viscosity when servicing, as this is generally
sufficient to prevent the occurrence of the knock. Apparently there
is a Suzuki Technical Service Bulletin which says as much, although
not in so many words. The engine numbers of the bikes affected are unknown....becoming
clear?
What has become apparent
is that in genuine cases of the knock occurring there is little resistance
from dealers to carrying out warranty work to replace bearings. This
isn’t a small job and doesn’t appear to guarantee a permanent fix (it’s
just possible that you might get incorrect bearings fitted as a replacement?).
If you believe you have the knock and want a fix it certainly seems
worth harassing your dealer to get it done. Be prepared to be without
your bike for a while though.
UPDATE 26th June 2004 -
More 'evidence' to support the above theory
Please now complete this short survey form....results will be posted
as soon as possible. (all data collected will be used solely for the
purpose discussed here and deleted upon completion of the exercise)
One or two people have had problems with the form
(probably software on their PCs stopping
popup windows) - if you cannot open the link above please use
this link to the form
(Survey closed Jan 2005).
Engine Number location
Chassis Number (V.I.N.) location
1: ID Plate (sticker) 2: stamped in to the head stock
Further information received
from a forum member 26th June 2004:
"I am dropping mine off tomorrow for the main
bearingectomy. The "special" bearings have been on back order for
over a month, which indicates to me there is obviously many of us
getting this done. What I have learned about this so far is this;
I have shared what I have found out with "Crank" and others about
the tech bulletin I read in a Suzuki District Reps "binder" while
test riding my bike for the knock issue. From the bulletin I read
there is a bearing "available" which is thicker and different oil
hole design. This indicates to me that (this is a speculation) the
crank journal was machined undersize originally, and a larger
bearing was designed when the problem became apparent with some
bikes.
The fact that this bearing exists, is enough evidence to lend truth
that Suzuki "knows" they have an issue in which they attempting to
"compensate for. It is a different part number and has an
illustration in the TSB I read detailing the differences. It took
serious "psy-ops" to persuade the rep to agree to cover this
procedure under warranty, and I am glad that it is being addressed.
Mind you, I went thru the BS that the dealers, the factory rep, and
others on this board have been slinging that the noise is nothing to
worry about cause it's normal. Well from what I have read the issue
will be corrected by replacing the bearing in question, so I have
pushed to ensure it happens. For those of you which start noticing
this with your bike, in the future...and others tell you it's
normal. Just ask yourself this; Why would there be a "non standard"
size bearing available from Suzuki, if it were not an issue.
Furthermore I believe (after seeing my bike torn down) that
some...and I say some of the clutch rumble is also related to this.
Think about the crank and clutch gear relationship and the crank
wobbling (at a microscopic level) at it's unbalanced point. This
point seems consistently reported at 3500-4krpms) and/or at idle. I
believe this is also why some are being confused with the knock and
the clutch "judder".
I am going to observe the teardown of my bike, and will obtain the
clearance between the crank and main bearing, I will post what I
find currently and with new bearing vs what spec calls for, and I
think this will answer more definitively if this is in fact the
case. We then can close down some of these threads and open a FAQ
with instructions to take to dealer and get the bearingectomy
performed...or simply live with the knock.
As many others have said, I simply can't live with the
knock/noise/vibe because I will never have peace of mind after
warranty expires, at 10, 20 or 30 k miles, or will I have a hard
time selling the bike if it sounds like it's coming apart?
Simple fact is this...SV did not do this at 3500 miles, I know of
many SV's (all others I know of) which do not do have the issue and
I as a loyal customer paid good money for my pride and joy, and feel
I should have peace of mind knowing what I bought runs and lasts as
long as other SV buyers.
For those of you who choose to "disregard/live with" the issue, more
power to you, but don't think that by choosing to ignore the noise
that your bearing to crank tolerances are going to get any tighter.
I will post what I find out, and hopefully obtain some pix of the
parts in question (old bearing and new etc) and if in fact it fixes
the issue."
Update
20/07/2004....another 'take' on the Knock from a UK Dealer
'Hon o Tron' went to his local dealer and
complained about the "knock" and subsequently to cut along story
short his dealer phoned Suzuki to see what they wanted to do. No
questions asked, Suzuki came clean and said there was an
issue/problem with the main bearings and the end shims which caused
the crank to move sideways as well as up and down and that they'd
fix it under Warranty no problem.
Crescent Suzuki have apparently said a very similar thing although
there's a bit more to it. They have now said that there is an
acknowledged problem with the bearing tolerances and told one forum
member to bring the bike in to them so that one of their mechanics
could verify the presence of the "knock" and then it's up to the
owner as to what to do i.e. have the engine stripped down and
bearings etc replaced or do nothing.
They have also apparently said that the bearing tolerance issue was
not dangerous and would not lead to the premature demise of any
engine and so no recall would be issued by Suzuki. Although how they
can be so sure at this early stage of the bikes life is not clear
but as there haven't been any engine failures to date we'll give
them the benefit of the doubt for now. Furthermore they have said
that the knock originates from the first batch of bikes made which
are the ones the press get hold of and apparently the bearing
tolerances were made this way on purpose as it makes the engine more
free revving and thus gives better bhp figures which looks good in
the magazine reviews!. (AndyW - sounds like a load of bollocks...but
that's what Ben77 was told by Crescents!)
This then leads on to an apparent quirk resulting from the
replacement of the main bearings and end shims in that the engine
supposedly looses about 5bhp as it becomes much tighter with the new
bearings and shims in place. However one assumes that this power
loss is temporary as the brand new parts mean the engine is
initially 'tight' so you'll need to run it in again but I'm sure the
missing 5 bhp will return as the engine loosens up and beds in.
There is however an important point to note in that some people
still seem unsure if they have the "knock" or not. It's important
that you get a Suzuki Dealer to diagnose the Knock and if work is to
be carried out on the engine be sure that IT IS WARRANTY
WORK........an engine strip down will cost you an arm and a leg if
it's done at your expense!
The good news is if you've got the "knock" and you're worried about
it, it appears that Suzuki have owned up and you can have it fixed
under Warranty asap.
Top
|
